1 Confirmation with Jeff and Dave – The future of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology with special guest Guilherme of Indacoin.
Catch the One Confirmation with Jeff and Dave Podcast from the BTC Managers world headquarters with special guest Guilherme of Indacoin as they talk about the future of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology.
Jefferson: Live from BTC Managers world headquarters. This is one confirmation with Jeff one Dave. I’m Jeff and Dave is actually ill today.
So today in the news Bitcoin is hovering around $55,000, after reaching an all-time high most recently, and it seems like Bitcoin is still going to continue to rise as Joe Biden administration has announced a $1.9 trillion stimulus package. That’s a whole lot of money printing, which seems like it’s only going to drive the price up. In other news, Elon Musk is open to accept 420 million those coin for infinity music track, it seems like cryptocurrency is going to expand beyond the world of just trading, fiat currencies and things like that, he’s going to expand into the world of NFT items or digital items such as music and artwork. So, this is on the heels of a $68 million sale of the very first NFT item to be ever created.
Finally, we have Signal is now allowing crypto donations so that you can support this free software project called, “Signal” free messaging project during nonprofit organization. And so as such, they can use the giving block platform that allows any person to donate using cryptocurrency and then receive a tax deduction. So, Signal is now gaining a lot of popularity worldwide, for private messaging between people. So, our guest today is Guilherme with Indacoin. And welcome to the show how you doing today?
Guilherme: Hi, Jefferson, thank you so much for inviting me for your podcast today. I’m doing very well. How about yourself?
Jefferson: Going well, doing well.
There’s a lot of exciting news that’s going on out there. What do you think of everything that’s going on today?
Guilherme: Well, as usual, I will say that it’s a regular day in the crypto markets. There are always different things going on. So as you mentioned, the NF Ts and Elon Musk and so on. I think the news are very exciting. And especially regarding the Bitcoin price, we have seen a small correction from the weekend when it was around $61,000. And now it’s trading around $55,000. So, I think this could be an interesting point where it could start growing again.
Jefferson: Very good. Very good.
What I’m thinking is that Bitcoin is likely as far as the price, the likelihood is that the price is going to continue to rise. On the other hand, I’m seeing within a tea, digital goods, all of that I think we might expand beyond the realm of just price concern going into the realm of doing something more with crypto. Do you see that as part of the wider crypto adoption?
Guilherme: Yes, I definitely see that with the current state of the NFT market. So recently, in the past few weeks and months, we see that brands and even famous artists and celebrities are starting to release their own NF Ts. And I think that’s really pushing adoption. So for instance, people that have no knowledge or whatsoever of cryptocurrency, but they are already following those big influencers and celebrities, they will actually get access and start exploring this new technology through them. So, I think it’s also positive overall for the Bitcoin price and in general for the crypto market that this new NFT boom is taking place. So, I have no idea where is it going but I mean, we can already see some NFT is being sold for millions of dollars. And it’s just unbelievable. You Even people are selling their tweets for hundreds of thousands of dollars. And it’s unbelievable right now, the state of the market.
Jefferson: Well, it’s interesting, because until now, the entirety of the world if you will, was only conducted within a physical realm if you wanted to own something you had to get a piece of paper, primarily, to prove ownership. And I think with NF Ts, this proves that something more than a piece of paper, which is not necessarily eco friendly, can prove ownership, right.
It’s a total different way of owning assets, art in this case, but I believe that it’s still a new market. There are so many things that actually can be useful within the NF Ts, which haven’t been explored yet. For instance, when you want to purchase say, tickets for cinema or for concerts, this could be solved in form of NFTs. And I was listening to other podcasts. And people are even saying that, E-Books could be NFTs. So, in fact there are so many different ways that they can be used, but right now, it’s just archived. So, people are just buying really random stuff. I’ve seen pictures that have no value, it’s just even not an artist who created it. But they just pay a lot of money for that. And I think it doesn’t make a lot of sense right now.
For example, that recent project, #Masks, they are now selling some of those masks for really high prices. And in fact, there is nothing special about it. It’s just like crypto kitties, that in the long run, I don’t think it’s sustainable. Of course, only if you have those very rare pieces. But I think there will be more projects coming that will actually start exploring more interesting utilities for any of these.
Jefferson: Well, that’s the thing. I think there’s a lot of proof, if you will, that crypto can be more than just a means of exchange from fiat to some random cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum, and so on, right. I think now people can realize that there’s an actual utility to crypto with NFTs simply being the first widely adopted utility.
So, what other utilities do you see coming for cryptocurrencies?
Guilherme: Right now, for example in daily life, I would say that in most countries, it’s pretty difficult to use cryptocurrencies, of course, it depends where you are based. But as you know, many companies like Binance and others are releasing crypto cards. And I think once it’s completely available for the whole world’s population. I think that will be massive, because you will not need to actually be connected to your wallet. You don’t need to be online, you don’t need to have battery on your phone, you could just pay with these physical cards, and it will be used on your crypto account. So, I guess you can decide which tokens you want to use to purchase goods and services. And that I think will be the major utility. So, I believe for freelancers and people who work remotely and for foreign companies and so on. This will be amazing because the banking system doesn’t really work for international transfers, it can take a lot of time. The commissions are insane up to maybe 15%-20% for a regular bank transfer. And if it’s for higher amounts, I would say that it’s even there is risk that this transaction will be blocked. So, if all those people who work remotely can receive funds in crypto and then just use crypto for their daily purchases, I definitely think that will be the major utility. It will be amazing if everyone has that opportunity.
Jefferson: I agree. I know, I do remember the days where an international transfer could take as long as a month, which never made sense to me. Now, today, no matter of minutes, anybody anywhere can receive payments, but see there cryptocurrencies have been primarily competing with the likes of Apple Pay or PayPal. Where people can receive money, Granted, it’s fiat money, but money instantly. And people are not able to easily see the flaws of fiat currencies, where their money is actually being stolen from them every day through inflation. On the other hand, with NF Ts I think, its path and other utility things like health care, things like almost any industry where we’re relying on paper as a means of documentation, access, control, prove, things like that. Whereas rich cryptocurrency proof is absolutely. If it happens, and you have the key, there is nobody else that could possibly deny that you have the ownership of something, right.
Guilherme: Yes, definitely.
Jefferson: So, things like music rights on the blockchain. I know the whole thing about music, and the fines and everything get ridiculous. But music rights, there have been whole lawsuits fought over that, right.
Jefferson: So, I think it’d be interesting to see what happens over the next year as adoption continues. So, turn into that, do you think adoption will continue to rise over the next year, or do you think it’ll be fairly flat?
Guilherme: Well, I think for sure, it will continue to rise, that I’ve no doubts. But it’s possible that for instance, if we see a huge correction in the markets, for example, 80% correction or 60% that might create a lot of fear. And people will start selling and start again saying that this is a scam. And they’ll the same stories, like we’ve seen before in 2017, for example.
Of course, I believe the market is more mature right now. And the projects are much more solid, the regulations are also stronger than before, not everybody can just set up a company and start working just like that. So, I see also with this new decentralized applications that I mean, it really opened the markets because before, people were just investing in shady, ICOs, which didn’t really have much actual progress or development, most of them were just pure ideas. So, buying those coins were just pure speculation. But nowadays, you can just go to some DeFi platform. And for example, let’s say you just have USD or USDT or any other stable coins, you can even just earn interest on those stable coins in some platforms, even up to 30%, 40%. Whereas in your bank accounts, in some countries, you have even negative interest rates. So, I think for those people who are just holding their savings, and I don’t know maybe in some countries maximum they might earn 2% or 3% on their savings accounts and that money could actually still be in crypto. And it could be used in stable coin if they don’t want to take any risk. And they could be earning much higher return. So, I think most people haven’t realized that there are such possibilities in DeFi. And I think it’s still really the beginning. Because even we see like, all those lending protocols, that allows you for example, to stake your Bitcoin and then to borrow USD and then reinvest your USD. It gives you possibilities that if you wanted, for example to take a loan, from the bank, even if it’s not that big, it could take a lot of time, you’ll have to sign a lot of papers, and it will be a thing, it will take also lots of energy from people to do this process. And it’s not even for sure that they will receive.
But now with DeFi, you can just take a loan in, maybe even in seconds, and then just reinvest that money, then pay back. And I mean, it’s a new world completely. And when people realize what they can do with it, I think then there will be a huge adoption at that moment.
Jefferson: Yes, I’d agree with you.
I think there’s a lot of things coming down the pike, if you will, that will continue to think drive people towards crypto. Because, it just simply is technologically superior over fiat. There are so many things about it that can capture more details about a transaction and provide more proof of ownership and things like that.
Jefferson: And plus, the biggest thing is, nobody can take it from you.
Jefferson: And I can’t tell you how many times it’s been so frustrating that here we in the US, we have a law that allows the police or any law enforcement to just simply walk up and take anything and everything that you own, without any easy legal recourse. It’s really affected a lot of people negatively. And it’s extremely frustrating.
There are many banks that went bankrupt. I know some in Europe, and many people had even their life savings in those banks. And right now, most of them were not able to retrieve their funds, because they went bankrupt, or they just had to go through very costly legal procedures with lawyers, and this really kills people’s lives, you worked all your life, you trust at the bank with your money, and then it’s gone, and you don’t know what to do. Because, in fact you never own that money. When you sign the agreement with the bank to open an account, you actually give them the rights to own your money. So in those cases they actually, in some countries, they do have the right not to refund anything at all.
Jefferson: Well, what do you think about these exchanges are kind of similar to a bank. But, today they so far, seem to be performing well, you can think of for example, Gemini Coinbase. Indacoin is sort of in a similar spot, although you don’t hold the button but you do exchange it. Do you think government at some point might collectively tried to get together and do some kind of action?
Guilherme: Well, I do agree on the point that exchanges can be compared to banks, because in the end they are a centralized entity, private company, and they do own your keys. So, they have actually access to your wallet and if they are hacked, which we have seen several times. It is indeed possible that you will lose your funds. So in the end, we still need exchanges for example, like Indacoin that will allow you to convert your fiat into crypto. But for instance, on Indacoin although we do have our own wallet, we allow users to also just send their coins to any other wallet. So, they don’t necessarily need to hold their funds on Indacoin, but they can just send to their meta mask, or even to their offline wallet, like Ledger, or Treasurer or any other wallet. So, we just allow users to convert their traditional money to the new money.
Jefferson: Yes, that’s the thing.
I personally, have a Ledger Nano X and I previously have refuted on this show, as how easy it is to use and to operate, Ledger Live is an amazing piece of software.
Going forward, do you see decentralized exchanges such as Yoona coin and other, do you see them continuing to grow and influence and so forth or do you think there’s a role for the centralized exchanges such as Gemini and Coinbase to play?
Guilherme: Yes, I think decentralized exchanges will definitely continue to grow. I mean, you can look at uni swap, which exists for I believe, more than two years. And until last year, most people didn’t even know about it. And it has become huge. I mean, right now, I believe uni-token is top 20 in terms of market capitalization. It even surpassed chainlink. And in a very short period of time, since they launched the token, it’s been maybe around six months, or maybe even less than that. So it’s crazy how the decentralized exchanges are growing, not only on the Ethereum chain, but now you see that, for example, on Binance chain, Pancake Swap, and many other decentralized projects and exchanges are growing, their volumes are getting higher and higher. Uni-swap, even they surpassed the daily volume of Coinbase several times already. So I think the biggest advantage is that you own your keys. So you don’t need to trust an exchange to do simple swaps. And you have the option to provide liquidity. For example, when uni-swap launched their liquidity pools, you could earn crazy APIs, even for very common pairs like Ethereum, USDT, you could earn at some point even up to 300% 500% API. Whilst if you if you were in the centralized exchange, you will either earn nothing, or just earn very little, just by holding your coins there.
So, I think it gives people freedom ability to earn higher interest by just holding their coins. And [unintelligible 00:23:40], you don’t need to pass KYC. And ultimately, it’s scalable, more scalable, than just even holding your coins in some offline wallets, because they are just sitting there. But you you can actually earn interest by just holding those coins in decentralized applications.
Jefferson: Yes, it’s a fascinating, fascinating world.
What previously had been only available to the super rich is now available to all of us. And it’s been a fascinating change to light. But again, we can’t offer investment advice on this show. As always go to a trusted advisor, or better learn for yourself. There’s a lot of tools and technology and books and online courses and so forth that will provide you with the education necessary to understand how to utilize all these different technologies to further secure, your money and at the end of the day, it is your money, not the bank’s money. And so it should be up to you to decide what to do with it.
Guilherme: Of course.
Jefferson: I’ve always wondered, I remember reading even in the 1980s default thing about hedge funds and some of them would make hundreds of percent. And meanwhile at banks and those days in the 1980s, you’re lucky to get a percent or two as peanuts, and you watch your money trend over your eyes. So it’s almost a crime, but they’re doing, it is a crime what they’re doing with fiat currencies.
So alright, do you have any final thoughts on what’s going on with cryptocurrencies adoption and ease of use and everything?
Jefferson: Well, I think many people for example, I have many friends that never heard, never utilized crypto before. And I see that now everybody suddenly wants to learn more about it. So, I can see adoption, or in my daily life, I see there is more adoption, people are interested, of course, the main reason why they are interested in because the price has been rising very quickly. And I mean, that’s the only thing that actually kind of upsets me, that’s the newbies that want to enter the markets, they just think on the short term, right. They just want to make quick profits, they think that it’s going to grow much more. So, what happens is the usual debts, they buy the top, and then of course, the price will go down, and then they will sell the bottom, and they will lose money, and then they will lose their interest and faith in cryptocurrency. So that’s the most common mistake. I think even many people who are now experiencing crypto, most likely they made that mistake in the beginning, it’s very common. So I think, to drive more adoption, as you mentioned before, there should be more education.
So, as I see some countries in the US, and I believe, if I’m not mistaken in China’s, or some other countries, they are starting to implement some cryptocurrency courses in their high schools, and even in primary schools. So, this is a new technology that we see that it works, and it drives adoption. So, people need to be well informed about it, because there is also lots of scams out there. And, you need to know how to identify them, which are reliable sources. And, in general of course, one should make it some research. But this research also sometimes might be hard, because there is so much information out there. So many exchanges, and it’s hard. When you start it’s a complete new worlds, there is so many things going on, and it can even be terrifying. Not everyone is a trader, not everyone understands the graphs. And that’s why I think this new DeFi hype really simplifies the process. Because, if you look at uni-swap or other indexes, the interface is super simple, you can just swap one token to the other, you don’t need to place a limit order or a spot order, you just choose the coin you want and you just buy it. And with fiat on ramps such as Indacoins, we really facilitate the process of buying sewing basically less than one hour. Users can purchase their first crypto with their Visa or MasterCard. So, this is also our main goal, to drive adoption and to drive adoption the first step is to convert your fiat to crypto. So, I think the future is bright in crypto. I think it’s getting better.
This better than the bull run in 2017. And for sure, more sustainable. Of course, it’s even possible. There might not even be a big correction like there was before. Since the institutions are also now big players in this markets and in few words, I really want to thank you for inviting me for your podcast.
It was really fun and interesting to discuss these topics with you. And for all the people out there who want to learn more about crypto. I suggest just watching some videos on YouTube getting familiar with this and don’t rush into anything. So, if you see the price is rising, don’t worry. It will eventually also fall. And there maybe better opportunities. So, there is no needs to panic. One can wait and you know, once you feel comfortable and ready, you can go for it.
Jefferson: Yes, FOMO is definitely not a good thing fear of missing out, I would encourage anybody to really take a look at what’s going on never invest more than you can afford to lose. But that said, there is no harm in buying something using cryptocurrency or selling something using cryptocurrency. And there’s plenty of ways of doing both and Indacoin had a great tool that you can use on your website to buy and eventually get into cryptocurrency in some way. Perhaps that next contractor, you can ask if they accept cryptocurrency and pay them that way. That’s no loss to you. It’s the same amount of money.
Jefferson: So, lots of ways of getting involved that allow you to experience versatility, cryptocurrency.
So, thanks again for being on the show. I hope to talk to you again in about six months or so just to check in and see how things are going Guilherme.
And as always, you can like us to follow our show page and stay in touch. This has been another production of One Confirmation with Jeff and Dave. Dave is out, and I’m Jeff.
Thanks for having us.